What was discovered, as far as I can tell, from your treatment of it, is essentially an ancient pharmacy in this house. The Tim Ferriss Show. It's a big question for me. McGovern also finds wine from Egypt, for example, in 3150 BC, wine that is mixed with a number of interesting ingredients. As much as we know about the mysteries of Eleusis. Frankly, if you ask the world's leading archaeobotanists and archaeochemists, where's the spiked beer and where's the spiked wine, which I've been doing since about 2007, 2008, the resounding answer you'll get back from everybody is a resounding no. All rights reserved. So I'm trying to build the case-- and for some reason in my research, it kept coming back to Italy and Rome, which is why I focus on Hippolytus. So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. I'm paraphrasing this one. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? But you will be consoled to know that someone else will be-- I will be there, but someone else will be leading that conversation. So the Greek god of wine, intoxication. But it's not an ingested psychedelic. We still have almost 700 with us. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. Love potions, love charms, they're very common in the ancient. So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. So that, actually, is the key to the immortality key. And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. CHARLES STANG: I have one more question about the pre-Christian story, and that has to do with that the other mystery religion you give such attention to. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. Rather, Christian beliefs were gradually incorporated into the pagan customs that already existed there. And what you're referring to is-- and how I begin the book is this beautiful Greek phrase, [SPEAKING GREEK]. Newsweek calls him "the world's best human guinea pig," and The New York Times calls him "a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk." In this show, he deconstructs world-class . And so part of what it means to be a priest or a minister or a rabbi is to sit with the dying and the dead. In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit, joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . And maybe in these near-death experiences we begin to actually experience that at a visceral level. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . I know that that's a loaded phrase. Those of you who don't know his name, he's a professor at the University of Amsterdam, an expert in Western esotericism. With more than 35 years of experience in the field of Education dedicated to help students, teachers and administrators in both public and private institutions at school, undergraduate and graduate level. Because what tends to happen in those experiences is a death and rebirth. And Brian, once again, thank you so much. CHARLES STANG: OK. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact A rebirth into a new conception of the self, the self's relationship to things that are hard to define, like God. The answer seems to be connected to psychedelic drugs. CHARLES STANG: Right. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving And what we find at this farmhouse is a sanctuary that Enriqueta Pons herself, the archaeologist who's been on site since 1990, she calls it some kind of sanctuary dedicated to the goddesses of the mysteries. You take a board corporate finance attorney, you add in lots of childhood hours watching Indiana Jones, lots of law school hours reading Dan Brown, you put it all together and out pops The Immortality Key. And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. So Brian, welcome. CHARLES STANG: All right. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. I mean, that's obviously the big question, and what that means for the future of medicine and religion and society at large. I'm happy to argue about that. We don't have to look very hard to find that. So in the mountains and forests from Greece to Rome, including the Holy Land and Galilee. . The fact that the Vatican sits in Rome today is not an accident, I think, is the shortest way to answer that. I appreciate this. Is this only Marcus? So thank you, all who have hung with us. And what about the alleged democratization with which you credit the mysteries of Dionysus, or the role of women in that movement? So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. And I think we're getting there. And I started reading the studies from Pat McGovern at the University of Pennsylvania. If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. I'm going to come back to that idea of proof of concept. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. And so how far should this investigation go? And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. So the Eastern Aegean. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. Although she's open to testing, there was nothing there. So again, if there were an early psychedelic sacrament that was being suppressed, I'd expect that the suppressors would talk about it. Brian launched the instant bestseller on the Joe Rogan Experience, and has now appeared on CNN, NPR, Sirius XM, Goop-- I don't even know what that is-- and The Weekly Dish with Andrew Sullivan. You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. I would have been happy to find a spiked wine anywhere. So this whole water to wine thing was out there. BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to. It's really quite simple, Charlie. And shouldn't we all be asking that question? And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. But the point being, if the Dionysian wine was psychedelic-- which I know is a big if-- I think the more important thing to show here in this pagan continuity hypothesis is that it's at least plausible that the earliest Christians would have at the very least read the Gospel of John and interpreted that paleo-Christian Eucharistic wine, in some communities, as a kind of Dionysian wine. Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . And that kind of invisible religion with no name, although brutally suppressed, managed to survive in Europe for many centuries and could potentially be revived today. The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. I'd never thought before about how Christianity developed as an organized religion in the centuries after Jesus' murder. I expect there will be. But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. I mean, something of symbolic significance, something monumental. The Continuity Hypothesis was put forward by John Bowlby (1953) as a critical effect of attachments in his development of Attachment Theory. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. And I want to say to those who are still assembled here that I'm terribly sorry that we can't get to all your questions. Let's move to early Christian. So you lean on the good work of Harvard's own Arthur Darby Nock, and more recently, the work of Dennis McDonald at Claremont School of Theology, to suggest that the author of the Gospel of John deliberately paints Jesus and his Eucharist in the colors of Dionysus. So how to put this? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving In fact, something I'm following up on now is the prospect of similar sites in the Crimea around the Black Sea, because there was also a Greek presence there. Thank you all for joining us, and I hope to see many of you later this month for our next event. I will ask Brian to describe how he came to write this remarkable book, and the years of sleuthing and studying that went into it. I mean, if Burkert was happy to speculate about psychedelics, I'm not sure why Ruck got the reception that he did in 1978 with their book The Road to Eleusis. And to be quite honest, I'd never studied the ancient Greeks in Spain. BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. But it just happens to show up at the right place at the right time, when the earliest Christians could have availed themselves of this kind of sacrament. Where you find the grain, you may have found ergot. [2] This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. But in Pompeii, for example, there's the villa of the mysteries, one of these really breathtaking finds that also survived the ravage of Mount Vesuvius. . So in my mind, it was the first real hard scientific data to support this hypothesis, which, as you alluded to at the beginning, only raises more questions. I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. 8th century BC from the Tel Arad shrine. So my biggest question is, what kind of wine was it? But I'm pressing you because that's my job. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. A combination of psychoactive plants, including opium, cannabis, and nightshade, along with the remains of reptiles and amphibians all steeped in wine, like a real witch's brew, uncovered in this house outside of Pompeii. So at the very-- after the first half of the book is over, there's an epilogue, and I say, OK, here's the evidence. And considering the common background of modern religions (the Pagan Continuity hypothesis), any religious group who thinks they are chosen or correct are promoting a simplistic and ignorant view of our past. And then at some point they go inland. Which, if you think about it, is a very elegant idea. So I want to propose that we stage this play in two acts. Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. Its proponents maintain that the affable, plump old fellow associated with Christmas derives from the character of Arctic medical practitioners. So the mysteries of Dionysus are a bit more of a free-for-all than the mysteries of Eleusis. CHARLES STANG: We're often in this situation where we're trying to extrapolate from evidence from Egypt, to see is Egypt the norm or is it the exception? And so that opened a question for me. This is true. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. Now the archaeologist of that site says-- I'm quoting from your book-- "For me, the Villa Vesuvio was a small farm that was specifically designed for the production of drugs." And what it has to do with Eleusis or the Greek presence in general, I mean, again, just to say it briefly, is that this was a farmhouse of sorts that was inland, this sanctuary site. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. That was the question for me. And then that's the word that Euripides uses, by the way. You become one with Christ by drinking that. And not least because if I were to do it, I'd like to do so in a deeply sacred ritual. If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? So I don't write this to antagonize them or the church, the people who, again, ushered me into this discipline and into these questions. Because ergot is just very common. It's something that goes from Homer all the way until the fall of the Roman Empire, over the course of well more than 1,000 years. The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. To sum up the most exciting parts of the book: the bloody wine of Dionysius became the bloody wine of Jesus - the pagan continuity hypothesis - the link between the Ancient Greeks of the final centuries BC and the paleo-Christians of the early centuries AD - in short, the default psychedelic of universal world history - the cult of . difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. It is not psychedelics. And yet I talked to an atheist who has one experience with psilocybin and is immediately bathed in God's love. Copyright 2023 The President and Fellows of Harvard College, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name. CHARLES STANG: Thank you, Brian. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? It's only in John that Jesus is described as being born in the lap of the Father, the [SPEAKING GREEK] in 1:18, very similar to the way that Dionysus sprung miraculously from the thigh of Zeus, and on and on and on-- which I'm not going to bore you and the audience. You may have already noticed one such question-- not too hard. Psychedelics Today: Mark Plotkin - Bio-Cultural Conservation of the Amazon. CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. BRIAN MURARESKU: It just happens to show up. Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2023 Is taking all these disciplines, whether it's your discipline or archaeochemistry or hard core botany, biology, even psychopharmacology, putting it all together and taking a look at this mystery, this puzzle, using the lens of psychedelics as a lens, really, to investigate not just the past but the future and the mystery of human consciousness. I'm not sure many have. Whether there's a psychedelic tradition-- I mean, there are some suggestive paintings. Why don't we turn the tables and ask you what questions you think need to be posed? That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. It was it was barley, water, and something else. But it was not far from a well-known colony in [INAUDIBLE] that was founded by Phocians. So. I include that line for a reason. If beer was there that long ago, what kind of beer was it? And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. Eusebius, third into the fourth century, is also talking about them-- it's a great Greek word, [SPEAKING GREEK]. And even in the New Testament, you'll see wine spiked with myrrh, for example, that's served to Jesus at his crucifixion. Maybe I have that wrong. It's some kind of wine-based concoction, some kind of something that is throwing these people into ecstasy. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. And nor do I think that you can characterize southern Italy as ground zero for the spirit of Greek mysticism, or however you put it. And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. There he is. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. And I offer psychedelics as one of those archaic techniques of ecstasy that seems to have been relevant and meaningful to our ancestors. What Brian labels the religion with no name. And that is that there was a pervasive religion, ancient religion, that involved psychedelic sacraments, and that that pervasive religious culture filtered into the Greek mysteries and eventually into early Christianity. So I think this was a minority of early Christians. So what evidence can you provide for that claim? So why do you think psychedelics are so significant that they might usher in a new Reformation? Let me just pull up my notes here. And I asked her openly if we could test some of the many, many containers that they have, some on display, and many more in repository there. So how exactly is this evidence of something relevant to Christianity in Rome or southern Italy more widely?